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Firmness in shoulders

 :: the dance :: Styling

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Firmness in shoulders

Post  tejalg on Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:58 pm

I have taken a few lessons in USA, there I was always told to keep my shoulders firm. There has to be tension and that would help the guy lead, but here in the class, all the guys I take lessons with say, keep it loose.
And I am not sure what looks more graceful, firm shoulders or leaving them loose…
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  AmarPrem on Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:37 pm

Dear Tejal,
Salsa is not just a dance of the feet…. infact no dance is (even Tap dancers use their entire body)…..the idea is to be comfortable while ur dancing, so let ur entire body groove….. I may b wrong this (wud invite comments on the same), but the resistance/tension that you want to create is in the arms…..never let ur arms be completely stretched out…always maintain an angular “\_” shape with ur hands…u wont b required to stiffen ur shoulders…..likewise, when pushed..never let ur arms go farther than ur back
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  AnandMajumdar on Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:57 pm

welcome to the forum tejal!!

our whole team will try our best to make u feel at home
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  baby on Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:55 am

Hi Tejas

Its indeed lovely to hear that, you have taken few classes of Salsa in USA.

As your telling that in US you were told to keep your shoulders firm and there has to be a tension which would help the guy to lead.

I hope the way I explain would make sence to you as well as other members reading this post.

First of all.... We all have seen Models walking the ramp if not LIVE but on TV, so we all must have noticed that the upper body (shoulders and abit below part, am sorry I dont know the exact word for the "abit below part" )of a model is "F I R M" but not "S T I F F".

{The arms are abit closer to the body and the hands swing in a v.light manner thts natural}

The lower body thats the wasit line and the hip gradually transfer the weight of one leg to the other and that makes the entire look gracefull. In this entire procedure you dont notice the exact the firmness or the swinging of the hands and the transfer of the weight, what you only NOTICE is the GRACE. I hope you all are getting me bounce


Same way in Salsa Dance if we try to keep our upperbody Firm we will feel the TENSION what your talking about,

But if we make it a pattern of keeping the upperbody firm while walking, sitting or dancing we wornt feel the TENSION in future.

Keeping the upperbody firm will make you look more beautiful(your body posture) than having a loose shoulder or a dropping shoulder(slight twisted inside) not only in dance but also in any walks of life.

Now comes the guys leading part in the "firm shoulder"..... now when you have a firm shoulder, a guy can rest his hands on it in a much better way and give a well balanced lead to the girl,

HOW???? as the pressure of your firm shoulder contracts with the guys "firm grip" of his hand, it makes it easier for him to balance your whole body weight and lead you in a much better way. coz your entire body weight has been disturbuted equally by keeping your upperbody firm and the transfer of weight toward your lower body.

So if you have a firm shoulder it should come naturally, if you pay attention or try to keep ur shoulder firm, you will have not a firm shoulder but a "tensioned shoulder" which will not let you enjoy your dance.

I hope I have been able to explain in words if not then Anand I hope you atleast understand what I mean to say and then you can editied in your words and help Tejal clear her douths.

Tejas forget about USA if your a student of QUICKSTEP Thank your Stars as ANAND is the Best and will give you right guidance.


Thanks

Kai

And plz any douths in class just ask your trannier and not the guys who are still students.

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  baby on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:03 am

Can We plzzz know who is AmarPrem????

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  salsaking on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:12 am

they are bunty and bubbly Smile
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  baby on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:51 am

Plz Salsaking tell me who is Amarprem??

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  AmarPrem on Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:58 pm

hey kainath,

we havnt met..........infact most of the ppl on this forum dont know me Smile
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  tejalg on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:51 pm

Kai, you mentioned arms are a bit closer to body..do u mean that in Salsa, you keep your arms a bit closer to body?
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  sangeeta on Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:31 am

tejalg wrote:I have taken a few lessons in USA, there I was always told to keep my shoulders firm. There has to be tension and that would help the guy lead, but here in the class, all the guys I take lessons with say, keep it loose.
And I am not sure what looks more graceful, firm shoulders or leaving them loose…

Hi Tejal. Maybe what they actually meant by 'keep your shoulders firm' is that don't hunch your upper back and keep a straight upright posture.
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  Grishma on Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:10 am

correct me if i am wrong but i think while dancing (salsa) the girl should keep her arms close to her body because she may end up hitting the guy while turning
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  riddhima on Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:17 am

wt iv noticed is that when u keep ur shoulders firm and ur upper boddy straight, it makes u look graceful..u can keep ur arms close 2 ur body when turning...just make sure u don't knock ur partner off... Razz
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  Kingshuk on Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:17 pm

pardon me, if I butting into a conversation that has been predominantly ladies so far , but tejal.. when guys say that let loose, imore than the shoulder, most often its the elbow joint.

Guys often find it very difficult to lead for cbl or cbt, if the joint at the elbow is stiff.. say for eg at count 3 of the cross body lead, when the man needs to hold out the lady's right hand out before the pull, if the lady's elbow is stiff, he will face diffculty. If its the cross body turn, and the man and woman are of the same hieght, chances are that during the turn, if the elbow is stiff and out, the elbow will connect to the guy's chin...its happened to me Sad .

I have danced with you in class, and I do not think that your shoulder is any problem at all..but what Kai says is correct... when in class, ask Anand, Jiggy or Doc Samyr..they will give you the best opinion

In any case, Salsa is all about having fun...so let loose !
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  latina on Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:08 pm

You are absolutely right Kingshuk when in doubt in class Anand, Jiggy and Doctor Sam are the best person to ask...
Hey anand can you please throw some light on this firm shoulder or let loose...
And Hey Kingshuk good to see your post after a long time..

Take care...

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  Chindu on Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:52 pm

Tejalg, here are some thougts:

Just wondering if your teacher was talking about arms, not shoulders, by any chance?

Firmness or tone is something that most teachers -- and leaders -- require in arms (which is supposed to originate from the body, not merely from the arms, if I am not mistaken), not shoulders. Terrible to lead if you have floppy arms.

Shoulders for most genres of dance, including salsa, should be rolled back and down... or more importantly, should not be tensed (else they will come up and you create a very ugly and 'uplifted' frame). Again, shoulders need to be fluid so your body -- especially the back muscles -- get to work and don't go all rigid and stiff... Good to watch cuban salseros for the way their body works -- particularly the back and shoulders... Crossbody guys are more stylised, but are more stiff in the body compared to cubans, I should think...

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  baby on Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:22 am

Hi Tejal,

Ya I did mean to keep ur arms abit close to ur body but this does not mean it should stick to ur body,as it will make things more worst while dancing. just be natural thats what really required

And wheres? Anand why has he not put some words on this thread???

Where R U Anand?

Kai

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  Varada on Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:10 am

ok...m getting really confused...can the master clear this confusion...firm?? no hunch?? stiff?? help...!!!!

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  AnandMajumdar on Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:54 am

ok.

heres my take.
its an old one. take a large heavy book. place it on ur head. walk. if the book doesnt fall that more or less is the posture the dance demands from you.
elbows must more or less be not sticking out, the forearm must not more or less go behind the frame or surpass the back.

in terms of resistance try this exercise.
take one of those swinging doors. automatic doors. open it halfways. hold it open with your palm out as though you are shaking hands

it will try to shut but wont be able to cause u r stronger
but ur hand will feel the pressure. thats resistance

now standing where u are increase or decrease pressure. door moves forward and backwards based on pressure and release. this could be equated to lead or leader action. come back to halfway point.

now you move forward and backward without letting the door move from its position. now that is what ur arms SHOULDNT be doing during the dance. come back to halfway again.

now you move forward and backward again and let the door move along with u. this could be equated to you being the follower, especially when the door closes on you. you will notice arms dont flop around too much


i hope this was helpful. if not i will elaborate further

anand
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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  baby on Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:59 pm

PLZ Anand throw some more light, I really didnt understand the equation of the doors etc. plz make it more easier

kai

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  Varada on Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:40 am

Can u elucidate the follow part of the door theory plz??

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  baby on Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:27 pm

Anand waiting to hear from u on this topic, coz still we r not clear about this topic

Kai

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Re: Firmness in shoulders

Post  Varada on Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:10 pm

can we have one session on lead n follow?

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